Make This Map a Reality
- Thread starter King Helü of Wu
- Start date
King Helü of Wu
Banned
I know it's propaganda, but there are crazy people in every country, including Israel.
Your job is to give Israel the desire to conquer all the land in the map above, and in the same time the right circumstance in the region for this to tolerated by the powers.
Your job is to give Israel the desire to conquer all the land in the map above, and in the same time the right circumstance in the region for this to tolerated by the powers.
King Helü of Wu
Banned
Doing so would change the nature of Jewish people fundamentally, it has to manage a task it never has done before: being the ruling class of a multi-ethnic empire.
I do not see TTL Israel doing so, despite the worst fears of its neighbors. Such a territory would make Israel dangerously overstretched, as compared to its population and industrial capacities.
I do not see TTL Israel doing so, despite the worst fears of its neighbors. Such a territory would make Israel dangerously overstretched, as compared to its population and industrial capacities.
King Helü of Wu
Banned
I don't care about borders, you can add in Egypt and spare Iraq if you want.
The key point is make Israelis do what the Persians, Ottomans and British had done before: to rule an Empire.
King Helü of Wu
Banned
Or colonialism.
Sorry, it may seem like I'm trolling...
Maybe no Jewish Rebellion and Diaspora?
Yeah, that's the best option. No Jewish revolt, and a Roman successor state, centred in Judaea and ruled by a dynasty of converted Roman generals, conquers much of the Middle East.
I think that'd make it quite plausible, even though I'd still make it less big and I guess the borders wouldn't be that straight if the state is established in ancient times.
America is removed from the table through a catastrophic event. Israel, now alone and cut off, lashes out against its enemies with its nuclear sword. The end result is something akin to the map.
Well, it depends how early a POD you can tolerate. Judaism is well suited for demographic explosion, being a patriarchal religion with polygamy permitted and most of its religious heroes fathering numerous children. Arguably it's better for this purpose than Islam, focusing on expanding the Chosen People through reproduction rather than converting or conquering outsiders. Its connections to the Hebrew State are strong (the King of Israel is literally* the Anointed One, chosen by God and operating with the full authority of the Temple) and it's not hard to imagine them doing much better in the Iron Age period, whether or not you consider their biblical zenith historical.
Judaism does also have a built-in mechanism that permits land outside the Promised Land to be taken by individual households providing they serve militarily - it's easy to see this becoming a formal system that would give a successful Hebrew state a pretty substantial motive for expansion.
I did have a vague scenario for this entitled 'Midrash World' that I was sure I had posted here, but maybe not as I don't seem to be able to find it. There a Hebrew state forms the basis for an east med empire that Hebraises the surrounding Anatolian and Egyptian states. I eventually dumped it as I didn't have a better POD than 'Hebrews get their hands on more chariots earlier'.
* Correct usage - 'Anointed' here refers to literal oil being poured on your literal head as part of the coronation.
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Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
The original Jewish half of Palestine according to the UN mandate was only about half Jewish, yet they managed to double their territory while making their population about 80% Jewish. There's no reason they can't do the same thing, within reason, in the Nile-Euphrates plan.
Jordan's population is only 6 million (and was only 1.5 million in 1971) concentrated in a few urban centers, the Sinai is very sparsely inhabited, and they can simply wall off about 10 population centers in Iraq and put Jewish settlers in the rest to make them a "majority". Lebanon's population is about half Christian, who can be turned against the Muslims, and Iraq and Syria have large minority populations as well.
Of course, the international community might have something to say about all this, but the fact is that in a vacuum, Israel would just need to do what they have already done to Palestine on a much larger scale. Some dodgy Bantustan borders is all it would take.
The metor strike from Peshawar Lancers hits in 1957, and more centered in the Middle East. I think this may be to large, but an Isreal that controls the Sinia, Lebanon, north west Saudi, and Jordan may be doable.
Good grief, your majesty!
Shortly after World War I, the Hashemites in Hejaz are desperate for allies against ibn Saud, and are willing to concede massive territories in the north to Jewish immigrants (who must, obviously, arrive in large numbers ASAP). Arabs native to Palestine join in, in return for a substantial share of the captured territory. The alliance wins the war.
Kuwait was already a British protectorate by this time and would have to be left out.
After the fighting ends, Britain and France agree to a joint mandate in the middle east, then divide it at the northern boundary on the map. Independence follows in short order and Greater Israel adopts its name.
Shortly after World War I, the Hashemites in Hejaz are desperate for allies against ibn Saud, and are willing to concede massive territories in the north to Jewish immigrants (who must, obviously, arrive in large numbers ASAP). Arabs native to Palestine join in, in return for a substantial share of the captured territory. The alliance wins the war.
Kuwait was already a British protectorate by this time and would have to be left out.
After the fighting ends, Britain and France agree to a joint mandate in the middle east, then divide it at the northern boundary on the map. Independence follows in short order and Greater Israel adopts its name.
Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
Another, more limited option is for Palestine and Transjordan to gain independence as a unified nation and then federate with Iraq at some point, but that certainly wouldn't be any kind of "Israel", though it would have quite a large Jewish population.
Make the alt-Ba'athism include Jews under their umbrella of secular Arab nationalism and maybe have an Iraqi or Jordanian king that tries to invite European Jews to his country in the 1930's to modernize it.
Make the alt-Ba'athism include Jews under their umbrella of secular Arab nationalism and maybe have an Iraqi or Jordanian king that tries to invite European Jews to his country in the 1930's to modernize it.