What's the difference bet Bodianus masudai & Bodianus sepiacaudus?

flameangel88 · 11/10/2009, 10:33 PM

According to Liveaquaria they are the same:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...91&pcatid=1691

The Pacific Redstripe Hogfish, also referred to as the Masudai hogfish, Candystripe or Black Spot hogfish, and is a brilliant red with white horizontal stripes. Its common name comes from the coloration and elongated body of these fish.

The reason I'm asking is that I purchased two from BZ expecting to see some yellow as show on their site:

However, the two I received looks like the sepiacaudus (which I bought one off DD 7-8 months ago) without any yellow. From all the search I found the masudai is from Japan and should have yellow on the body.

Can someone clear this up for me as to who's right here?

Thanks!

Terra Ferma · 11/10/2009, 10:38 PM

All of the "Bodianus masudai" I have seen come from Indonesia, and they look very different than Bodianus sepiacaudas, which also come from Indonesia. To me the B. masudai from Indo look different than the ones you see photographed in Japan, so I think what is commonly imported as B. masudai is actually not B. masudai. I have never seen one imported from Japan.

Terra Ferma · 11/10/2009, 10:45 PM

And to answer part of your original question...Live Aquaria is wrong.

B. sepiacaudus was initially imported as B. opercularis, which it is not. I've only seen B. opercularis from Central Pacific and Mauritius. A few years ago it was finally given a proper name.

The "B. masudai" from Indo arrive from time to time and are usually about half the price of B. sepiacaudus.

flameangel88 · 11/10/2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Ferma

And to answer part of your original question...Live Aquaria is wrong.

B. sepiacaudus was initially imported as B. opercularis, which it is not. I've only seen B. opercularis from Central Pacific and Mauritius. A few years ago it was finally given a proper name.

The "B. masudai" from Indo arrive from time to time and are usually about half the price of B. sepiacaudus.

Thanks for the replies.

Sorry, but I'm confused now as to which one is it that's on the Liveaquaria picture?

Funny you mentioned half price because BZ is having 50% off on the masudai.

I'm just trying to figure out which one I really have and since all three looks the same I'll have a trio after this pair comes out of QT in about 6 weeks. So far the pair is eating frozen on the first night so I'm very happy for that. It would have been very colorful if it had some yellow to it.

Here's the email write up from BZ:
Species Spotlight - Masuda Hogfish
A Hardy, Beautiful, Rare and Half Price Wrasse for a Limited Time Only!
Half Price Masuda Hogfish!The masuda hogfish (Bodianus masudai) is a gorgeous saltwater aquarium fish appropriate for many reef and fish-only set-ups. Appropriate for the novice aquarist, but interesting (and rare) enough to attract advanced reefers and serious collectors, this is a hardy and active fish that is well worth any aquarist's consideration.

Ranging in subtropical waters in the northern West Pacific around Japan, New Caledonia and Norfolk Island, the masuda hogfish is essentially an extremely colorful wrasse (family labridae) that is reef associated and reaches a maximum length of about 12 cm. It is a member of the subgenus Trochocopus, which includes seven other species, all of which are similar in shape. Another beauty from this subgenus, the bloody hogfish (B. sanguineus), is also sometimes seen in the hobby.

Sometimes called the peppermint hogfish or the Shima-kitsunebera (Japanese), the masuda hogfish will get along well with most other fishes except similarly-colored fairy wrasses (e.g., the twinspotted hogfish, B. bimaculatus). In a small to medium-sized tank, it is best to have the masuda hogfish as the only wrasse of that color scheme. In a large tank (150 gallons plus), however, it is perfectly normal (and recommended!) to mix this fish with other fairy wrasses.

For optimal health, the masuda hogfish should be fed at least twice a day (like most wrasses) and be given plenty of swimming space. An eager eater, this fish will readily accept most commercially prepared foods for carnivores and omnivores. The masuda hogfish will also appreciate periodic meals composed of meaty bits of fresh table seafood, in addition to brine shrimp.

Like most wrasses, the masuda hogfish is known to jump, so a tight-fitting lid is essential. While it will likely eat small invertebrates such as ornamental shrimp, this fish is generally considered reef compatible.

Iwishihadgills · 11/10/2009, 11:32 PM

thats creepy i was just thinking this like an hour ago lol

Terra Ferma · 11/11/2009, 12:07 AM

The fish pictured on the LA link you provided is B. sepiacaudus. I could be totally wrong on this (and I apologize to BZ if I am) - but the fish they (BZ) have pictured on their B. masudai page looks like the Japanese "B. masudai" and it is a rare day when a fish from Japan can be landed for 75 bucks, let alone sold for 75 bucks. Which leads me to believe they are selling the Indo "B. masudai" and perhaps using a picture they found on the internet of the Japanese B. masudai. If this is the case...in their defense...the exporters from Indo describe their fish as B. masudai, and it looks a lot like the pictures of the Japanese B. masudai...but not upon closer examination. Too boot I can't say I've ever seen any true Japanese export fish on BZ.

But I can't stress enough that I could be totally wrong on this.

joetbs · 11/11/2009, 12:47 AM

the indo masudai are usually B. izuensis like this:

Indonesia does export small quantities of B. sepiacauda though most are Izu Hogs. I have never seen true masudai available anywhere. I have seen B. opercularis exported from Xmas Islands and also a fluke from Sri Lanka but it didn't make the trip.

flameangel88 · 11/11/2009, 06:14 AM

Thank you for the info and I greatly appreciate it.

I know collectors/exporters often label the fishes wrong when they ship. One day I was at a lfs and picked up a small Flagfin with defect and I saw this nice looking wrasse I new I want it. At the time I wasn't sure what it was but did remember seeing it on DD and BZ. When I heard the price I was looking all over the store to see if they have anymore.

I think this the best $20 I spent on fish (only wish it would come out more often)

flameangel88 · 11/11/2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joetbs

the indo masudai are usually B. izuensis like this:

Indonesia does export small quantities of B. sepiacauda though most are Izu Hogs. I have never seen true masudai available anywhere. I have seen B. opercularis exported from Xmas Islands and also a fluke from Sri Lanka but it didn't make the trip.

Just found a picture of the B. izuensis on reeflex.com

I guess I'm not going to see a Bodianus masudai and if I do it will probably cost some arms and legs.

zemuron114 · 11/11/2009, 02:56 PM

japan rarely exports that hog. shipping alone is over 75$ per fish, and japan usually doesn't have any fish under 50$ for sale wholesale!

still a very nice hog!

flameangel88 · 11/11/2009, 09:45 PM

Both came out tonight and both are eating frozen mysis.

I'm pretty sure they are B. sepiacaudus and not B. masudai.

flameangel88 · 11/20/2009, 09:18 AM

I don't know what to think anymore after seeing pictures from last night. Looking at the live fish it's very difficult to see the yel/gold color but from the pictures you can see it in one of the fish but not on the other. The yellow stripe is much wider on the BZ picture and also much more white on the underside.

See if you can come up with any suggestions from the pictures.

has some gold color to it

joetbs · 11/20/2009, 06:41 PM

they're definitely both sepiacauda. the masudai has thicker stripes, a black tail, a bigger earspot, broader body, etc. there would be a several hundred dollar price difference if it were a true masudai.

flameangel88 · 11/21/2009, 08:19 AM

Does anyone know if there's a yellow stripe variant of the B. sepiacauda? Or this is possibly the difference between the male and female? I just can't find enough info online and books on them.

I don't have a good picture of all three but will work on it

this is the darker variant I got from DD about 6 months ago at 2.25" and grew about 0.25 to 0.5" since

flameangel88 · 12/15/2009, 10:07 PM

After intro to the DT for 3.5 weeks now the two new one been hanging out in the same area and usually within 6" of each other. The original B. sepiacauda has not join them and usually take a nip at the two new one but this has subsided and the pair started to show signs of defending their territory. The bigger of the pair has really grew in the pass couple of weeks and is now able to take in 2 PE Mysis at one time but does take some time to swallow down both. I assume it's getting bigger is a sign that it's emerging as a male of the pair.

Couple of pictures

New pair

The Wrasse Bass is really getting big and beautiful

The one on the right is the original in the DT

Felixc · 11/05/2010, 10:39 AM

Hi,
Can we get an update on your trio? Are all three still together and getting along peacefully? How much have they grown? Was it easy to get them to feed on pellets? I have a trio waiting for me at a LFS and just wanting to hear from first hand experience before taking the plunge. Thanks.

flameangel88 · 11/05/2010, 08:04 PM

As of 8/7 I've 2 and the count was down to 1 on 9/6.

The new pair got along very well when introduced into the DT last Nov but the existing (larger) hog didn't like the new pair much and was doing sneak attack and ambush when it sees the other one approaching. This went on for few months and the attacks started to be more on the smallest one. Then all of a sudden the larger of the pair grew fast and was approaching the size of the existing hog and at this time the pair started striking back so I thought they must be pairing. One day the smallest one disappeared without a trace.

The 2 remaining hogs tried to stay out of each others way for the next few months before the largest one disappeared. The surviving hog was 2.25" last 11/10 and is currently 3.5-3.75". I did notice their growth was quick but I do feed heavy. They all ate after a few days of settling in and went from frozen to pellets/flakes in no time. Getting them to eat is definitely not a problem and they swim in the open often.

Hopefully that you introduce all three at the same time will have better luck than I did. I really thought the pair would do well especially how they got along during QT and intro to DT.

jaa1456 · 11/06/2010, 12:23 PM

So what is BZ?

Felixc · 11/06/2010, 03:39 PM

What is their temperment like with other smaller fish like anthias and gobies? Do these hogs have a tendency to jump out of tank?

flameangel88 · 11/06/2010, 08:09 PM

They get along with other fishes fine but my smallest are Pink Margin wrasse and dwarf angels. I think folks will tell you they're jumpers just like wrasses and only a matter of time. I never lost a wrasse due to jumping but I do try to cover the edges as much as possible.

flameangel88 · 11/06/2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaa1456

So what is BZ?

BZ = bluezooaquatics.com

11/10/2009, 10:33 PM	#1
flameangel88 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 3,998	What's the difference bet Bodianus masudai & Bodianus sepiacaudus? According to Liveaquaria they are the same: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...91&pcatid=1691 The Pacific Redstripe Hogfish, also referred to as the Masudai hogfish, Candystripe or Black Spot hogfish, and is a brilliant red with white horizontal stripes. Its common name comes from the coloration and elongated body of these fish. The reason I'm asking is that I purchased two from BZ expecting to see some yellow as show on their site: However, the two I received looks like the sepiacaudus (which I bought one off DD 7-8 months ago) without any yellow. From all the search I found the masudai is from Japan and should have yellow on the body. Can someone clear this up for me as to who's right here? Thanks!

11/10/2009, 11:32 PM	#5
Iwishihadgills Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lodi,CA Posts: 695	thats creepy i was just thinking this like an hour ago lol __________________ cameron

11/20/2009, 09:18 AM	#12
flameangel88 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 3,998	Need ID help I don't know what to think anymore after seeing pictures from last night. Looking at the live fish it's very difficult to see the yel/gold color but from the pictures you can see it in one of the fish but not on the other. The yellow stripe is much wider on the BZ picture and also much more white on the underside. See if you can come up with any suggestions from the pictures. has some gold color to it Last edited by flameangel88; 11/20/2009 at 09:34 AM.

12/15/2009, 10:07 PM	#15
flameangel88 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 3,998	Update After intro to the DT for 3.5 weeks now the two new one been hanging out in the same area and usually within 6" of each other. The original B. sepiacauda has not join them and usually take a nip at the two new one but this has subsided and the pair started to show signs of defending their territory. The bigger of the pair has really grew in the pass couple of weeks and is now able to take in 2 PE Mysis at one time but does take some time to swallow down both. I assume it's getting bigger is a sign that it's emerging as a male of the pair. Couple of pictures New pair The Wrasse Bass is really getting big and beautiful The one on the right is the original in the DT

11/10/2009, 10:38 PM	#2
Terra Ferma Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Oakland Posts: 726	All of the "Bodianus masudai" I have seen come from Indonesia, and they look very different than Bodianus sepiacaudas, which also come from Indonesia. To me the B. masudai from Indo look different than the ones you see photographed in Japan, so I think what is commonly imported as B. masudai is actually not B. masudai. I have never seen one imported from Japan.

11/10/2009, 10:45 PM	#3
Terra Ferma Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Oakland Posts: 726	And to answer part of your original question...Live Aquaria is wrong. B. sepiacaudus was initially imported as B. opercularis, which it is not. I've only seen B. opercularis from Central Pacific and Mauritius. A few years ago it was finally given a proper name. The "B. masudai" from Indo arrive from time to time and are usually about half the price of B. sepiacaudus.

11/11/2009, 12:07 AM	#6
Terra Ferma Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Oakland Posts: 726	The fish pictured on the LA link you provided is B. sepiacaudus. I could be totally wrong on this (and I apologize to BZ if I am) - but the fish they (BZ) have pictured on their B. masudai page looks like the Japanese "B. masudai" and it is a rare day when a fish from Japan can be landed for 75 bucks, let alone sold for 75 bucks. Which leads me to believe they are selling the Indo "B. masudai" and perhaps using a picture they found on the internet of the Japanese B. masudai. If this is the case...in their defense...the exporters from Indo describe their fish as B. masudai, and it looks a lot like the pictures of the Japanese B. masudai...but not upon closer examination. Too boot I can't say I've ever seen any true Japanese export fish on BZ. But I can't stress enough that I could be totally wrong on this.

11/11/2009, 12:47 AM	#7
joetbs Zanza Zanza Zanzibar Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York Posts: 2,003	the indo masudai are usually B. izuensis like this: Indonesia does export small quantities of B. sepiacauda though most are Izu Hogs. I have never seen true masudai available anywhere. I have seen B. opercularis exported from Xmas Islands and also a fluke from Sri Lanka but it didn't make the trip.

11/11/2009, 06:14 AM	#8
flameangel88 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 3,998	Thank you for the info and I greatly appreciate it. I know collectors/exporters often label the fishes wrong when they ship. One day I was at a lfs and picked up a small Flagfin with defect and I saw this nice looking wrasse I new I want it. At the time I wasn't sure what it was but did remember seeing it on DD and BZ. When I heard the price I was looking all over the store to see if they have anymore. I think this the best $20 I spent on fish (only wish it would come out more often)

11/11/2009, 02:56 PM	#10
zemuron114 Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Pilgrim State (Mass) Posts: 4,039	japan rarely exports that hog. shipping alone is over 75$ per fish, and japan usually doesn't have any fish under 50$ for sale wholesale! still a very nice hog!

11/11/2009, 09:45 PM	#11
flameangel88 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 3,998	Both came out tonight and both are eating frozen mysis. I'm pretty sure they are B. sepiacaudus and not B. masudai.

11/20/2009, 06:41 PM	#13
joetbs Zanza Zanza Zanzibar Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York Posts: 2,003	they're definitely both sepiacauda. the masudai has thicker stripes, a black tail, a bigger earspot, broader body, etc. there would be a several hundred dollar price difference if it were a true masudai.

11/21/2009, 08:19 AM	#14
flameangel88 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 3,998	Does anyone know if there's a yellow stripe variant of the B. sepiacauda? Or this is possibly the difference between the male and female? I just can't find enough info online and books on them. I don't have a good picture of all three but will work on it this is the darker variant I got from DD about 6 months ago at 2.25" and grew about 0.25 to 0.5" since

11/05/2010, 10:39 AM	#16
Felixc Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: AB Posts: 408	Hi, Can we get an update on your trio? Are all three still together and getting along peacefully? How much have they grown? Was it easy to get them to feed on pellets? I have a trio waiting for me at a LFS and just wanting to hear from first hand experience before taking the plunge. Thanks.

11/05/2010, 08:04 PM	#17
flameangel88 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 3,998	As of 8/7 I've 2 and the count was down to 1 on 9/6. The new pair got along very well when introduced into the DT last Nov but the existing (larger) hog didn't like the new pair much and was doing sneak attack and ambush when it sees the other one approaching. This went on for few months and the attacks started to be more on the smallest one. Then all of a sudden the larger of the pair grew fast and was approaching the size of the existing hog and at this time the pair started striking back so I thought they must be pairing. One day the smallest one disappeared without a trace. The 2 remaining hogs tried to stay out of each others way for the next few months before the largest one disappeared. The surviving hog was 2.25" last 11/10 and is currently 3.5-3.75". I did notice their growth was quick but I do feed heavy. They all ate after a few days of settling in and went from frozen to pellets/flakes in no time. Getting them to eat is definitely not a problem and they swim in the open often. Hopefully that you introduce all three at the same time will have better luck than I did. I really thought the pair would do well especially how they got along during QT and intro to DT.

11/06/2010, 12:23 PM	#18
jaa1456 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 1,145	So what is BZ?

11/06/2010, 03:39 PM	#19
Felixc Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: AB Posts: 408	What is their temperment like with other smaller fish like anthias and gobies? Do these hogs have a tendency to jump out of tank?

11/06/2010, 08:09 PM	#20
flameangel88 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 3,998	They get along with other fishes fine but my smallest are Pink Margin wrasse and dwarf angels. I think folks will tell you they're jumpers just like wrasses and only a matter of time. I never lost a wrasse due to jumping but I do try to cover the edges as much as possible.