Apolemichthys xanthotis

tcmfish · 04/13/2009, 06:43 PM

Are you sure those are them? They look like creams to me. I think the one posted tonight is the second one you have had.

dfs/la2 · 04/13/2009, 07:33 PM

tcmfish,

Thank you for your post. We will be checking with our Aquaculture Coral & Marine Life Facility to verify the identification of the Angelfish posted on our Diverâ€™s Den. We will be posting here as soon as we obtain additional information.

Mike S.
LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith

dfs/la2 · 04/14/2009, 12:16 PM

tcmfish,

Thank you for pointing the error in our naming of the Apolemichthys sp. It was in fact a Apolemichthy xanthuris and not the listed Apolemichthys xanthoutis and we have made the necessary changes. Thank you again for informing us of the error so we could correct it.

Gwen S.
LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith

DFS · 04/14/2009, 10:10 PM

Tim,

You are on the ball that's for sure! We received the two Apolemichthys on a shipment of Red Sea endemics from Eritrea, along with numerous species of Butterflyfish, Assasi Triggerfish, Masked Pufferfish, Sohal and Purple Tang.

I wouldn't have thought anything was amiss as the range for the Red Sea Angelfish- Apolemichthys xanthotis is limited to the Arabian Peninsula- Red Sea, Oman, Gulf of Aden, and Arabian Gulf. The range for its close relative Apolemichthys xanthurus is scattered in only a few locales is the Western Indian Ocean: Mauritius, Maldives, Sri Lanka and India.

A quick double check in the book titled- (A Guide to Angelfishes and Butterflyfishes) by Gerald R. Allen, Roger Steene, and Mark Allen to verify the species was accurately identified was done. Now that I have looked into this a bit, it appears as though the Adult fish images in this book are swapped for Apolemichthys xanthotis and its very similar looking cousin Apolemichthys xanthurus on page 27 and 28! I am not sure if anyone has ever pointed this out before as this is a very popular and well recognized publication used by many.

The Red Sea Angelfish or Yellow Ear Angelfish- Apolemichthys xanthotis differs slightly from its close relative the Indian Yellowtail Angelfish- Apolemichthys xanthurus. In A. xanthurus, the dark head coloration ends at the edge of the operculum just behind the eye of the fish, where A. xanthotis has the dark head coloration that ends a bit further back, just past the pectoral fin.

Cheers!

tcmfish · 04/14/2009, 10:16 PM

Also just for future reference the white is much more vibrant in the A. xanthotis. It also has a black mouth, and the black on the dorsal area is much more pronounced.

Compared to A. xanthurus which has a white/grey mouth and the black on the head is almost like a band over the eye. The midsection of it is a mix of white and black and gives off a more grey appearance.

Hope that helps.

Keep up the good work though your fish are amazing!

DFS · 04/15/2009, 04:56 PM

Tim,
Thank you for your input. The characteristics you describe surely hold true and are quite prominent on fully mature, adult fishes of both species.

When looking at large juvenile/sub adult fishes the characteristics you describe are not nearly as pronounced, which makes things a bit more complex.

Below are images of both fishes at approx. 4" in length. The image of the Red Sea Angelfish was scanned from Reef Fishes Volume 3- Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes by Scott W. Michael.

Apolemichthys xanthurus

Apolemichthys xanthotis

tcmfish · 04/15/2009, 05:27 PM

Yeah those pictures are definitely good for reference. Do think you would ever get in Apolemichthys xanthotis? I don't know if I have ever seen one for sale. They seem pretty rare, or maybe it is just exporting from the red sea area.

DFS · 04/15/2009, 08:10 PM

Tim,

Years ago when Red Sea shipments from both Saudi Arabia and Yemen were coming into US regularly Apolemichthys xanthotis were available, but I donâ€™t believe they were imported in any significant numbers. I would venture to say this has more to do with the market value of this species vs. the demand, as Red Sea fish are expensive when taking into account the freight rate, density of the pack, and FOB price of the fishes themselves. The demand for more desirable, colorful species such as Asfur, Maculosus, Sohal, Purple Tang, Semilarvatus, etc. was significant in comparison.

The bulk of the Red Sea fish these days are now coming out of Eritrea. Eritrea borders Sudan and Ethiopia in northeast Africa. I have seen the diversity of species start to ramp up a bit in the last year with some Assasi triggers, Masked puffers, Pseudochromis, and Blennies so I am hopeful we will see this fish again very soon.

I have been told by one of my suppliers that groups of Apolemichthys xanthotis have been seen off the coast of Kenya. This actually can be confirmed in the book titled Angelfishes- A Comprehensive Guide to Pomacanthidae by Helmut Debelius, Hiroyuki Tanaka, and Rudie H Kuiter. Apparently in 1998, El Nino currents carried pelagic stages of this species to the African coast, where they settled in and became quite common then. Marine Ornamentals from Kenya are very prevalent in the trade these days, so perhaps we may even see this species show up from there as well.

Regards,

tcmfish · 04/15/2009, 09:10 PM

Very interesting. Understandable that it isn't the prettiest fish, but that has made it rare these days. Like the Centropyge nahackyi collected in Hawaii I think it was. Its cool to think how fish travel like that in the plankton.

Also is the diversity lower on the Eritrea side versus the Saudi Arabia/Yemen side or is it the fact that less places are exporting now?

I think it is so awesome that you inform people where the fish we get come from and actually know where they come from. Its amazing.

While I got your attention:
On a side note that Apistus carinatus you got in looks sweet! Never seen one before, but just and FYI that you may want to post on the selling page they are venomous.

DFS · 04/16/2009, 06:22 AM

Tim Wrote:

Quote:

Also is the diversity lower on the Eritrea side versus the Saudi Arabia/Yemen side or is it the fact that less places are exporting now?

From what I have found, the ecosystems and coral reefs marine life diversity in Eritrea are very similar to the Saudi/Yemen. There are over 600 species of fish, and coral reef formations along the coast are in good to excellent condition supporting a very rich and healthy fishery. The main reason why species diversity of Red Sea endemics have been hit and miss in the trade over the last few years can be attributed to the closure of exports of marine fish out of Saudi Arabia. Yemen is still shipping to the states but only the larger fish such as Sohals, Semilavartus, and Purple Tangs. Exports of marine fish out of Egypt are still trickling into the US as well, but these fish are very expensive and the quality and consistency is not where it needs to be.

Tim Wrote:

Quote:

On a side note that Apistus carinatus you got in looks sweet! Never seen one before, but just and FYI that you may want to post on the selling page they are venomous.

Thank you for your comments on the Longfin Waspfish, one incredible little fish thats for sure! When fish are Venomous they are listed as such in the Quick Stats for each species displayed on the LiveAquaria.com web site. This is the case with fish posted in the Divers Den as well, and this species is listed accordingly.

Ocellated Longfin Waspfish
(Apistus carinatus)

QUICK STATS
Minimum Tank Size: 75 gallons
Care Level: Moderate
Temperament: Semi-aggressive
Reef Compatible: No
Water Conditions: 72-78Â° F, dKH 8-12, pH 8.1-8.4, sg 1.020-1.025
Max. Size: 8"
Venomous: Yes
Diet: Carnivore
Compatibility: View Chart

Regards,

tcmfish · 04/16/2009, 10:26 AM

Nice, must have missed that.

One other thing, does every fish you add each night show up on the RSS feed? or once they are sold are they removed from the feed? I often find threads about fish on reefcentral the night fish are added and I never saw a pic on the feed.

Is there anyway there can be an archive of fish you have added or something? I always miss when they are added, but I just enjoy seeing everything you get and a lot of the fish are one of a kind or very rare. I have no money being a college kid, but I still like to know whats floating around.

DFS · 04/16/2009, 02:31 PM

Tim,

Every fish, coral, clam, and invertebrate we add to the Divers Den each evening is updated on the feed we send out, as well as listed in the Divers Den email if you subscribe to that as well.

With RSS feeds, the exact time or frequency you choose to have your Reader update will determine what shows up on the Divers Den feed. If your reader is not in sync with the exact time we update the Divers Den, then the animals that sell instantaneously will be missing from the feed your reader pulls. I would recommend setting your Reader up so that it pulls as frequently as possible. Please donâ€™t forget that if you are charged by the actual usage on a cell phone plan, then this would not be the best option which could get costly.

Currently we do not have an Archive of all the Divers Den items that have been available. As you know (I posted a reply to your comment on the Armitage Angelfish last week) we do list some of the best of the best animals in our Hall of Fame section on Facebook, which is located here:
LiveAquaria Hall of Fame

Regards,

tcmfish · 04/16/2009, 03:22 PM

Yeah I really like that hall of fame section, which is nice. I will try and figure out this RSS thing better.

04/13/2009, 06:43 PM	#1
tcmfish Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,658	Apolemichthys xanthotis Are you sure those are them? They look like creams to me. I think the one posted tonight is the second one you have had.

04/14/2009, 10:10 PM	#4
DFS RC Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 593	Tim, You are on the ball that's for sure! We received the two Apolemichthys on a shipment of Red Sea endemics from Eritrea, along with numerous species of Butterflyfish, Assasi Triggerfish, Masked Pufferfish, Sohal and Purple Tang. I wouldn't have thought anything was amiss as the range for the Red Sea Angelfish- Apolemichthys xanthotis is limited to the Arabian Peninsula- Red Sea, Oman, Gulf of Aden, and Arabian Gulf. The range for its close relative Apolemichthys xanthurus is scattered in only a few locales is the Western Indian Ocean: Mauritius, Maldives, Sri Lanka and India. A quick double check in the book titled- (A Guide to Angelfishes and Butterflyfishes) by Gerald R. Allen, Roger Steene, and Mark Allen to verify the species was accurately identified was done. Now that I have looked into this a bit, it appears as though the Adult fish images in this book are swapped for Apolemichthys xanthotis and its very similar looking cousin Apolemichthys xanthurus on page 27 and 28! I am not sure if anyone has ever pointed this out before as this is a very popular and well recognized publication used by many. The Red Sea Angelfish or Yellow Ear Angelfish- Apolemichthys xanthotis differs slightly from its close relative the Indian Yellowtail Angelfish- Apolemichthys xanthurus. In A. xanthurus, the dark head coloration ends at the edge of the operculum just behind the eye of the fish, where A. xanthotis has the dark head coloration that ends a bit further back, just past the pectoral fin. Cheers! __________________ LiveAquaria Director www.LiveAquaria.com Current Tank Info: Too many to list

04/15/2009, 04:56 PM	#6
DFS RC Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 593	Tim, Thank you for your input. The characteristics you describe surely hold true and are quite prominent on fully mature, adult fishes of both species. When looking at large juvenile/sub adult fishes the characteristics you describe are not nearly as pronounced, which makes things a bit more complex. Below are images of both fishes at approx. 4" in length. The image of the Red Sea Angelfish was scanned from Reef Fishes Volume 3- Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes by Scott W. Michael. Apolemichthys xanthurus Apolemichthys xanthotis __________________ LiveAquaria Director www.LiveAquaria.com Current Tank Info: Too many to list

04/15/2009, 08:10 PM	#8
DFS RC Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 593	Tim, Years ago when Red Sea shipments from both Saudi Arabia and Yemen were coming into US regularly Apolemichthys xanthotis were available, but I donâ€™t believe they were imported in any significant numbers. I would venture to say this has more to do with the market value of this species vs. the demand, as Red Sea fish are expensive when taking into account the freight rate, density of the pack, and FOB price of the fishes themselves. The demand for more desirable, colorful species such as Asfur, Maculosus, Sohal, Purple Tang, Semilarvatus, etc. was significant in comparison. The bulk of the Red Sea fish these days are now coming out of Eritrea. Eritrea borders Sudan and Ethiopia in northeast Africa. I have seen the diversity of species start to ramp up a bit in the last year with some Assasi triggers, Masked puffers, Pseudochromis, and Blennies so I am hopeful we will see this fish again very soon. I have been told by one of my suppliers that groups of Apolemichthys xanthotis have been seen off the coast of Kenya. This actually can be confirmed in the book titled Angelfishes- A Comprehensive Guide to Pomacanthidae by Helmut Debelius, Hiroyuki Tanaka, and Rudie H Kuiter. Apparently in 1998, El Nino currents carried pelagic stages of this species to the African coast, where they settled in and became quite common then. Marine Ornamentals from Kenya are very prevalent in the trade these days, so perhaps we may even see this species show up from there as well. Regards, __________________ LiveAquaria Director www.LiveAquaria.com Current Tank Info: Too many to list

04/15/2009, 09:10 PM	#9
tcmfish Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,658	Very interesting. Understandable that it isn't the prettiest fish, but that has made it rare these days. Like the Centropyge nahackyi collected in Hawaii I think it was. Its cool to think how fish travel like that in the plankton. Also is the diversity lower on the Eritrea side versus the Saudi Arabia/Yemen side or is it the fact that less places are exporting now? I think it is so awesome that you inform people where the fish we get come from and actually know where they come from. Its amazing. While I got your attention: On a side note that Apistus carinatus you got in looks sweet! Never seen one before, but just and FYI that you may want to post on the selling page they are venomous. Last edited by tcmfish; 04/15/2009 at 09:18 PM.

04/13/2009, 07:33 PM	#2
dfs/la2 RC Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,435	tcmfish, Thank you for your post. We will be checking with our Aquaculture Coral & Marine Life Facility to verify the identification of the Angelfish posted on our Diverâ€™s Den. We will be posting here as soon as we obtain additional information. Mike S. LiveAquaria Drs. Foster and Smith

04/14/2009, 12:16 PM	#3
dfs/la2 RC Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,435	tcmfish, Thank you for pointing the error in our naming of the Apolemichthys sp. It was in fact a Apolemichthy xanthuris and not the listed Apolemichthys xanthoutis and we have made the necessary changes. Thank you again for informing us of the error so we could correct it. Gwen S. LiveAquaria Drs. Foster and Smith

04/14/2009, 10:16 PM	#5
tcmfish Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,658	Also just for future reference the white is much more vibrant in the A. xanthotis. It also has a black mouth, and the black on the dorsal area is much more pronounced. Compared to A. xanthurus which has a white/grey mouth and the black on the head is almost like a band over the eye. The midsection of it is a mix of white and black and gives off a more grey appearance. Hope that helps. Keep up the good work though your fish are amazing!

04/15/2009, 05:27 PM	#7
tcmfish Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,658	Yeah those pictures are definitely good for reference. Do think you would ever get in Apolemichthys xanthotis? I don't know if I have ever seen one for sale. They seem pretty rare, or maybe it is just exporting from the red sea area.

04/16/2009, 10:26 AM	#11
tcmfish Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,658	Nice, must have missed that. One other thing, does every fish you add each night show up on the RSS feed? or once they are sold are they removed from the feed? I often find threads about fish on reefcentral the night fish are added and I never saw a pic on the feed. Is there anyway there can be an archive of fish you have added or something? I always miss when they are added, but I just enjoy seeing everything you get and a lot of the fish are one of a kind or very rare. I have no money being a college kid, but I still like to know whats floating around.

04/16/2009, 02:31 PM	#12
DFS RC Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 593	Tim, Every fish, coral, clam, and invertebrate we add to the Divers Den each evening is updated on the feed we send out, as well as listed in the Divers Den email if you subscribe to that as well. With RSS feeds, the exact time or frequency you choose to have your Reader update will determine what shows up on the Divers Den feed. If your reader is not in sync with the exact time we update the Divers Den, then the animals that sell instantaneously will be missing from the feed your reader pulls. I would recommend setting your Reader up so that it pulls as frequently as possible. Please donâ€™t forget that if you are charged by the actual usage on a cell phone plan, then this would not be the best option which could get costly. Currently we do not have an Archive of all the Divers Den items that have been available. As you know (I posted a reply to your comment on the Armitage Angelfish last week) we do list some of the best of the best animals in our Hall of Fame section on Facebook, which is located here: LiveAquaria Hall of Fame Regards, __________________ LiveAquaria Director www.LiveAquaria.com Current Tank Info: Too many to list

04/16/2009, 03:22 PM	#13
tcmfish Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,658	Yeah I really like that hall of fame section, which is nice. I will try and figure out this RSS thing better.